Forum:Shared Boss Names
I guess I should put this up to the community. What should we do with bosses that share the same name as an enemy that you fight later in the game. Should it be in one article or separate the regular enemy and the boss? If we make a decision, then this should be policy from hereon in. --Shinitenshi 01:42, August 30, 2010 (UTC) :Well, couldn't they just be separated within the article, yo? Kinda like this? Appearances Dragon Quest XXI (enemy table thing) Da omega moose is, like, funky fresh wit its horn slammin' style and'll use it to r0x0rz yer s0x0rz. As a Boss/Boss/Boss Monster <~~~ Subheader As da big boss it can cast Shizzywizzyzammawoo to serve yer cabooses hard while its posse come n' mug ya up right. :Or, if it was specific to just one game Characteristics (katablele) Joe mamas use there hideous mugs to scare their enemies into paralysis. Their breath is nasty, too. As a Boss/Boss/Boss Monster <~~~ Subheader A joe mama appears as a boss in the Temple of the Wohs God and, along with boosted stats to go along with its boss position, can cast Raisinle and Twoscoopsle and periodically spams Disruptive Handshake. :It shouldn't be hard to find if we keep it under a subheader like that, yo, and keeping it to one article will cut back on the number of possibly extraneous articles this wiki tends to have, yo. --PantheonSasuke 02:28, August 30, 2010 (UTC) ::But what about monsters that have backstories? What do we do about those? --Shinitenshi 03:00, August 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Backstories aren't very extensive in any of the Dragon Quest games, except some of the side-games, so that info could probably go under the info of the boss, too. This is a different matter if you talk of monsters like the HellWorm, Chibi or the great sabrecub tamed by the player in Dragon Quest V. Heck, even the great sabrecat Baumrem from VIII could probably merit his own article if the desire for one would arise. I probably feel this way because all these monsters actually get names... monsters like the goodybags who fight with caveMon or the mandrake marshal (dragonMan) that attacks that one settlement are just called by their species. They might be special from the rest of their ranks due to their increased strength (in some instances), but beyond that they're still just monsters that you put in the grave, and the effort that goes into their chronicling might as well be on par with the amount of effort that went into naming them. That sounds pretty biased, though, so it might be better to get additional opinions on this matter, yo :P (after all, this same feeling could possibly be applied to bosses like Seto, who looks just like a mandrake monarch (makainite), and if he's just another monster given a dirt nap then that could lead to his article simply being made a subheader in mandrake monarch, though I might be getting carried away with my thoughts now) --PantheonSasuke 03:50, August 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::What I'm saying is that bosses usually have some plan that's going to help their cause for whatever the hell they are doing. For example, we have a KingSlime named Kupo who enslaves a town to mine for fish (BAD JOKE, I KNOW) until the hero and his party arrive and kill him. But then it turns out that the reason that they are mining for fish is that this fish will be used to power a fish-powered ray guy to wipe out the moon, thus freeing the big bad boss. This is significant and shouldn't be written off as saying "Well, this is just a souped-up KingSlime. Let's just put it into the same article as the KingSlime", then it's doing a disservice. This monster is moving the plot along. In the end, all monsters are put in the grave but putting special significance to the bosses, even though they may share the same name and/or features should be given to them because they help move the story.--Shinitenshi 04:06, August 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::These details would still be noted in the articles, yo. It makes more sense to me to add it into the main monster article instead of making a separate article that would only ever have one-to-two paragraphs to it, never changing because that exact same monster will probably never show up outside the game it appears in. It might have moved the story along, yes, but that doesn't seem enough to me to merit isolating the info in a separate article when it could just be isolated within an existing article, still apparent. Placing those paragraphs in an article that's more likely to be viewed, where there is additional content to catch a reader's interest, could prove the better move. Honestly, though, I can't recall any bosses that are just normal monsters bossified that helped to progress the story in profound ways like the scenario you pitched. Could you maybe give some examples from the games, yo? --PantheonSasuke 04:46, August 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I suppose part of the problem is that Dragon Quest VII has more bosses than other games. Most bosses have their own thing in the areas that they are found. For example, Seto enslaves the men of Dune to build the Evil Statue and has the women of Dune to pray to the statue, transferring their prayers to the Demon Lord, giving him strength. Even though Seto is defeated, the prayers still give Ogrodemir power. In Probina, Dragon Man destroys the people in order to make sure that the Goddess Statue doesn't protect people from Ogrodemir. Bandit Wig, which is the same palette swap of a FooHero, helps progress the story as a minor character by giving a shard and appearing in a couple bonus scenes. What I am saying is just because it may share a name with another monster doesn't mean that it doesn't deserve its own article.--Shinitenshi 01:50, September 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Now see, you only gave one example here related to the issue at hand: the mandrake marshal / dragon man at Probina. Seto, the Bandit Wig (and they aren't called FooHero anymore, yo, they're conkuistadors, just so ya know), Nengal, FireGiant, and the plethora of other boss monsters in the game have their own names to differentiate them, but ones like the clawster, well wisher, king slime, and GigaMute are essentially nameless. While lacking their own name might not be enough to merit their lack of an individual article, it still seems unnecessary to create an article that will only display a paragraph or so (especially since you described the purposes of three boss monsters in just one paragraph) when this same paragraph of info can be placed in the monster page in its own area, without adding an extra article to the wiki's seemingly constantly expanding numbers. :::::::As it stands, though, we're at a stalemate because we're the ONLY two debating this. From what I'm gathering, your stance is that these monsters, despite sharing their names with normal monsters, still deserve their own articles because their actions have plot relevance (correct me if I'm wrong, yo), while my stance is that they should just have their own subheadered sections in the game(s) they're relevant to in the main monster article (see examples near top of discussion) since their story relevance, no matter how great, is not lengthy enough to make their own article and not having a unique name only adds to confusion when trying to search for them (since redirect pages and other such things might have to get involved). --PantheonSasuke 13:01, September 3, 2010 (UTC) Sorry I'm late to the party. ;) I don't follow all of your discussion because I haven't played VII, but here's my take. It seems to me that if a monster/enemy boss is given a specific name (Seto, Kupo, whatever) then they deserve a separate article. I think that distinguishes them enough as an individual versus the monster page which is for the overall species. If they are not given a unique name (clawster, well wisher, etc) then I don't think they get a separate article. It does seem a bit arbitrary, but we have to draw a line somewhere and I think without a different name, having 2 articles would be confusing naming wise. (Actually, it's already confusing enough with some monster names referring to different monster types in different games!) --Pagoda 08:22, September 4, 2010 (UTC)